ANKARA - YPJ member Ivana Hoffman stated that the Kobanê resistance, which was the beginning of the end for ISIS, is an awakening for the women of the world, and said, "Kobanê has become the symbol of women's will and resistance."
With the civil war that started in Syria in 2011, ISIS attacked North and East Syria, terrorizing the whole world. The beginning of the end for ISIS, which took a significant part of the Syrian territory under its control, was the attack in Kobanê in 2014. Launching an attack on Kobanê on September 15, 2014 from three sides, ISIS faced one of the biggest resistances in history against the attempt to strangle the peoples' revolution. The months-long resistance of the people of Kobanê brought the end of ISIS, which has turned into a nightmare for humanity. After 134 days of resistance, Kobanê was completely cleared of ISIS on January 26, 2015. After this first defeat, ISIS was also defeated in the cities it dominated.
With the call of world-famous names, November 1 was declared “World Kobanê Day” to support the Kobanê resistance, which has gained an international dimension.
Ivana Hoffman, who joined Yekîneyên Parastina Jin (YPJ) from Germany in 2019, influenced by the women's struggle against ISIS, who led the Rojava Revolution, spoke about the liberation of Kobanê, the women's struggle, and PKK Leader Abdullah Öcalan's "Women Libertarian, Ecological and Democratic" paradigm and its effects.
There has been a great resistance against ISIS in Rojava. Can you tell us your experiences during the time you spent there?
When I came to Rojava in the beginning of 2019 as an internationalist woman the ISIS caliphate in Rojava had already been declared defeated. But the effects were still pervasive throughout the land, the society, and the hearts of the people. We were dealing with a huge influx of Daesh to al-Hol camp and still, as we are today many years later, trying to get international recognition of the ISIS members by their nations and repatriating them to be tried in their homelands. Coming into Rojava the threat of the ISIS caliphate seemed very much at its tail end, as things settled and society tried to return to some kind of normal life.
Of course ISIS threat also exists as many sleeper cells are being exposed and the effects of ISIS in Rojava, although physically defeated, are still long-lasting. We see the psychological and ethical effects it has had on the society. Some women are still covered from head to toe in black with only their eyes exposed. Men are still marrying multiple wives even though it has been banned by the Autonomous Administration. Some of the conservative values still remain in the social standards of the people in society who had to live under the oppression of ISIS in this place. This understanding of women as objects, as weak and defenseless, the patriarchal mentality towards women’s role in the family is still pervasive and must be broken not just here but all of the middle east and the rest of the world.
However the time that I have been here the greatest threat and biggest danger always looming has been from the north, from Turkey. To look north to the mountains and see the sparkling lights of the Turkish border outposts and know the danger and threat of extermination was always so close is something very intense to experience as an internationalist who has never felt the threat of invasion by neighboring states. The invasion of Serêkaniyê and Gire Spi happened during my time here in YPJ, the constant drone strikes and targeted assassinations, the use of chemical weapons in the mountains, the spies and constant threats of new invasion have all been my reality and many others in Rojava. This is just a hint of what the guerrillas in the mountains have been experiencing for many many years. But I see children playing on the streets of Kobanê, next to a tall wall and on the other side are red Turkish flags and I can just begin to understand the way this effects the society, effects the psychology of the people who want to live in peace and freedom when always the danger of death and massacre are right across the street.
Why was Rojava attacked?
Was it only ISIS that was attacking? Or was it a certain ideology that attacked Rojava? Why did it attack Rojava, can we say that a certain kind of ideology waged a war against another ideology? Can you tell us what was the ideology YPJ was defending? Rojava was particularly attacked because the Kurdish people and the revolutionary movement here is in direct opposition to the ideology of ISIS. Although we can see that its not just ISIS that is wanting to wipe out the Kurds and destroy Rojava, Turkey also is the biggest threat now against the revolution. They both similarly are attacking Rojava not just with the goal of land and power, but they want to destroy the ideology and the hope for a different world that this revolution is making possible. And its not Rojava but all of Kurdistan. And its not just Kurdistan but now we see both Turkish nationalists and Daesh, members of ISIS internationally making attacks all over the world.
I think there are many motivations behind the goal of attacking and exterminating the Kurds. For one it is exactly because of the Kurds rich history of religion and spirituality that they were targeted. The Kurds have strong historical connections to Zoroastrianism, and the Yazidis were specifically targeted and massacred in Sinjar due to their ancient religious practices. The Kurds are one of the very few if not only majority Muslim people who still use a word other than Allah for God, they say ‘Xwedê’. This alone shows the deep differences they have to the strict institution of radical Islam and religious autonomy they hold.
Aside from religion, the movement was representing a new way of life, a transformation of society to a new world through women’s freedom and democracy. The women’s revolution aims to overthrow the historical pillars of nation-states and institutionalized religion that are defined by class society and patriarchy. We are fighting against this system that is damaging women and people around the world. So attacks of ISIS as well as the Turkish state are also concrete attacks on the woman’s liberation. It is not a month ago Turkey assassinated Nagihan Akarsal in Suleymaniya.
The YPJ is a force building up and defending a concrete alternative that enables women to liberate themselves, lifting the burden that capital and patriarchy, and religionism forced on their societies and open a way for a true democratic and ecological life. YPJ is not only a military unit but represents a whole concept of building up and protecting the women’s revolution. YPJ lives by and defends the slogan we hear so much these days with the uprisings in Rojhilat; Women, Life, Freedom.
The women lead the fight against ISIS. Why was it so important for the women to fight this war?
In the war against ISIS women were fighting against their historical oppression. ISIS represented all that has enslaved women in the middle east for millennia and women leading this fight means they were finally saying enough! And taking back their power. The fight against ISIS allowed women to play an active role in gaining their own freedom. It was a radical and revolutionary step for women in this society to take up arms, leave their family, and fight in a war.
They were fighting the clear enemy outside who invaded their lands, but also the enemy that ISIS represents inside their society as well. The pervasive patriarchy and classical conservativism. Women had their life path set out to grow up and stay at home doing housework and eventually marry to be a housewife and mother. By fighting ISIS they were also fighting this classical idea of the women’s role in society.
What sort of a beginning was the defeat of ISIS for women? What was the inspiration of the women in the fight against ISIS?
The defeat of ISIS was not the beginning but a continuation and an important and huge step in the fight for freedom. There is little knowledge about women’s role in self-defense until today but there always have been women who were challenging the patriarchal system that left women defenseless. Especially in Kurdistan, we can see the struggle that lead to the women leading the fight against ISIS is actually a long and historical one. Many Kurdish women participated in armed struggles throughout history that opposed domination. For example Fatima Rash, leader of Mara’ash tribe, who was leading a battalion of 300 men during the Crimean War in 1845. Or Zarîfe Xani was actively fighting alongside her husband Alişer in the Koçgiri uprising against the Ottomans in 1921. And in the Dersim Rebellion of 1937 Besê from the Alan tribe was the wife of Seyid Riza who was the leader of the rebellion. While fighting she ran out of munition. After defending herself with stones as a last resort, she threw herself from a cliff to avoid getting captured.
Taking the history of Kurdish women’s self defense as a basis, an important step in the history for Kurdish self-determination and women’s struggle was the defeat of the ISIS caliphate in Rojava. Not only were they continuing the historical struggle but they were inspired also to fight against the sheer brutality that ISIS had against women. Of course not all women who joined the fight were aware of their history nor it was a motivational aspect, but many joined the fight simply to put an end to the brutal violence against women under the rule of the caliphate. It was simply unacceptable as no human, no society and no living being can live without self-defense. It is inherent to live and systems of self-defense are as numerous as live itself. So it is true that this was the beginning of something for many women, the beginning of many women being a part of their history of selfdefense and the beginning of a new life.
The women in Rojava did not just lead the fight but the new life that is being built there. Can you tell us about that new life in Rojava? It is often said that the system in Rojava is a model for the whole world. Can you explain that system for our readers?
Women leading the fight against ISIS does not just mean with the use weapons and the sacrifice of their bodies or lives. Of course many brave women were very heroicly strategising, fighting and becoming wounded and killed in this physical fight. But the fight against ISIS is also the fight against their mentality, their ideology, and their core beliefs. This means the women had to fight within the life of society and to build up life against an ideology glorifying death and dying.
Before the revolution under the oppression of the Baath Regime, the Kurds not only faced oppression for their identity and existence but women were exposed to a double difficult situation for being women. Patriarchal traditions and dogmatic religious culture kept women oppressed in a social, economical, political and cultural way. When facing domestic abuse and violence they were left without any legal rights, including the right of child custody.
This began to change when the women’s movement of Rojava was founded under the name of Yekitiya Star in 2005. The women were forced to work and organize in secret due to the repressive Baath Regime of the time, laying a solid foundation of women’s struggle until the beginning of the revolution. As a result of this the women’s revolution in Rojava today looks like a women’s autonomous organizations within every societal structure. For example within the justice system and politics, the education institutions, the field of economy, culture and arts, diplomacy, and of course in the field of self-defense there is the autonomous women’s army YPJ. Yekitiya Star evolved into Kongra Star which is the umbrella organization for all women’s institutions that agreed to work within its principles, in accordance with the concept of Democratic Confederalism. Also there is also the co-chair system in place. This system requires that for every male official there is an equal and complimenting female official in any position within the governance of the Autonomous Administration. This has allowed for equal representation and ensured balance to what has historically been male-dominated fields.
I’ve seen the effect of these systems especially in the Mala Jin or ‘Womens Houses’ that exist in every city and big town where women can go to with their problems for mediation and assistance. Ranging from domestic problems like abuse, divorce, to lack of funds for raising their children or familial and other issues. They give advice, intervene, even enforce laws against underage marriage, and the issue of polygamy. These types of structures brings social, economical, political and cultural independence and autonomy back to the women of North and East Syria and has effected the society in such a positive way.
ISIS was cleared from Rojava and Kobané was freed. Now Turkey is attacking Rojava. How are these two related in terms of ideology? What is the purpose of Turkey?
Turkey attacking Rojava is in many ways a continuation of ISIS attacks and ISIS is still living through the strength and assistance of the Turkish State. The two have a very long history of collaboration and cooperation. They both fight against the Kurds for similar reasons, they want to exterminate the people, the identity, the revolutionary dreams and life being built in the middle east. They work together to achieve their common goal of genocide of the Kurdish people and the Democratic and Women’s revolution.
For Turkey this has been a historical goal. Erdogan is in pursuit of carrying out his neo-Ottoman fascist dreams of conquering the middle east. The proposal and goals of Abdullah Öcalan and the Autonomous Administration of democratic confederalism, living together as many nations is opposing his fascist dream. Similarly to ISIS, the enforcement of an Islamic nation state is their goal and there is historical and current proof we have publicly of their partnership against the revolution.
We can see especially in the Turkish occupied areas of Rojava. They run rampant with Islamist factions and we see the life under this occupational rule is similar to the life under the rule of the Islamic state in terms of women’s freedom as well as human rights violations. There are countless examples where Turkey was giving direct help to ISIS to attack Rojava. In 2015 in Till Temir ISIS attacked the Christian villages, simultaneously Turkey opened the water dams so that the whole area would flood. The local defense forces could not reach each other to organize defense of the territory, civilians couldn’t even flee the area. Additionally Afrîn was attacked by Turkey in 2018 during the final military campaign against the ISIS caliphate in Deir ez-Zor. Because of this the fighters had to make a decision to stay and fight and finally defeat ISIS or to go to Afrîn to defend their country against the invading Turks. And now within the occupation of Afrîn as well as Serêkaniyê and Gire Spi there is documented proof that the Turkish-backed ground forces of Islamist mercenaries are former and some very high-ranking ISIS fighters.
The last example I will give, though there are countless more, is much more recent. In the beginning of this year 2022, there was an ISIS revival attempt in the prison of Heseke. There was an uprising and many of our local forces mobilized against them. Forces from Til Temir were traveling to the prison as reinforcement and on the way they were targeted and bombed by a Turkish drone strike. We can see how Turkey is both supporting ISIS in their endeavors as well as ISIS providing help to Turkish actions and occupations throughout Kurdistan.
What was the role of the paradigm of Öcalan in the new life built in Rojava?
The paradigm and ideas of Öcalan is the foundation of the new life built in Rojava. Based on the liberation of women, democratic confederalism, and ecology Rojava is growing up and working with these principles as its core. The paradigm of Abdullah Öcalan was created while analyzing the history of socialist revolutions, forms of democratic societies and the reality of the people in Kurdistan. When the people of Rojava used the vacuum of power that emerged as a result of the uprising in 2011 in the Middle East, they used the paradigm of Öcalan not just as a guidance but as an example that was experimented with in other parts of Kurdistan. The paradigm of Öcalan was not just established in Rojava, it has a long history in different parts of the struggle.
Even Abdullah Öcalan was imprisoned long time before the revolution of Rojava started, he is the mental leader of this revolution. The new paradigm was created by him, while he was already isolated on the prison island of Imrali. The system of Rojava is based on his proposals and analysis. Therefore you can not divide Rojava from Abdullah Öcalan or the rest of the Kurdish freedom struggle, even if the self-administration is autonomous.
What is new about the paradigm is, that it is not aiming to built a socialist state, like many national liberation movements were aiming for in history. It tries to built a stateless direct democracy, based on neighborhood councils, communes, cooperatives and in this way a governance truly in the hand of the people. The remarkable difference to other socialist ideas is the central idea of women's liberation. In Öcalan’s paradigm women are not just represented in every political body, due to the co-chair system, but have own structures in any field of society. Women are organizing in the economical field, in the committees that try to establish justice, self-defense, education and many others. With the third pillar of ecology, the focus of the revolutionary struggle is also driven to environmental challenges and the building up of a long-term and nature-friendly approach of economy and living together.
Also, the paradigm includes all the different cultures and peoples of the region. It guarantees that every religion, nation or cultural group is represented in political bodies and have their right to fully practice their tradition, language or cultural habits.
How did you feel when it was announced that Kobanê was liberated? Now that several years have passed since then, how do you feel now as a women who fought against ISIS?
When the battle of Kobanê took place, I was still in Europe. At this time, there have been mass demonstrations in support of YPG/YPJ. The horrors of ISIS were well known at this time and many people felt powerless towards their barbaric attacks. The pictures of YPJ fighters that got famous at this time, gave people hope. Especially women saw the YPJ fighters as a role model. These images of YPJ fighters reminded us of the Mujeres Libres that fought for a social revolution and against the fascism of Franco in the Spanish Civil War 1936-1939, or the many female partisans who fought in the Second World War against the Nazis. To see that women take up arms to fight fascism reminded us that women’s armed struggle was not something buried in history, but something that is possible.
This is why the victory in Kobanê was kind of an awakening call to many women in Europe and around the world. It also destroyed the orientalistic view that women in the Middle East are only oppressed and defenseless. We felt ashamed to recognize this but at the same time we felt proud that women took a leading role in a battle against such an anti-human force like ISIS. Kobanê was a turning point for many people world wide. It was the time the Rojava Revolution got more known around the world.
With the resistance in Kobanê, we started to research the history of the women of YPJ. And by researching this we found out about the huge heritage of resisting women in Kurdistan, like the women’s army built up in 1993 in the guerilla in the mountains of Kurdistan. With every detail we learned more about the women’s resistance in Kurdistan, we got more excited and we got empowered by all the bravery and willingness to sacrifice that so many women have been giving in their anti-colonial struggle for a democratic society with true women’s liberation.
When we now look back to the battle of Kobanê, it is still a great source of strength to all of us. Many brave women such as Arîn Mîrkan, who decided to give her life by destroying tanks of ISIS and in this way prevented them from entering Kobanê, are important references for us. This is why Kobanê became a symbol of women’s will power and resistance.
Military wise, Kobanê was the beginning of the end of the so-called caliphate of ISIS. Until the territorial defeat in Baghuz in March 2019, the YPG/YPJ/SDF forces gave 11.000 martyrs. We did this with the knowledge that we did not just protect Rojava, Syria and the Middle East but the whole of humanity. Our comrades wrote history in the battle of Kobanê and we will never forget their great sacrifices. For us it was a proof that with even not having heavy weapons we can fight and be victorious over a high professional trained and well equipped enemy like ISIS.
Will the women lead the fight with the same spirit in case of a possible of attack of Turkey?
Women will always lead the fight against any attack of the land, people, way of life, ideology and values of this revolution. We will always be the first to defend ourselves against these oppressions and protect everything we have achieved until now. We will not let Turkey take anything more away from us.
This fight against more attacks of Turkey are not just being lead by women in YPJ, although it is clear that they are essential to the revolution of women here. So many women are leading the fight in any way that they can all over Kurdistan. Women also play a central role in the political fight, a shining example being Hevrin Xelef who was a strong figure in society before she was targeted and assassinated by Turkish drones. In this way more and more women visibly participated in tasks of self-defense throughout North and East Syria. Also women did not all come from North and East Syria, but from all parts of Kurdistan, the Middle East and the whole world, with internationalist women coming here to work and fight in defense of the revolution. The amount of solidarity that women’s organizations of Rojava are given from all around the world and the fact that the flag of YPJ is flying on women’s demonstration worldwide shows the amount of hope they created for women in the world.
Additionally, its important to mention that its not only women who are physically here who are the only ones defending Rojava. Women from all around the world have a responsibility in their places also to play a role in defending Rojava against these attacks. So, to answer your question, yes. Women will definitely lead the fight with the same spirit as we’ve seen before by Arîn Mîrkan, Avesta Xabûr, and so many more. But this time, the spirit has been spread far and wide and the attempts of Turkey to attack the women in Rojava will be answered by the strength of the women of the whole world.
Erdogan is making threats against Rojava and attacking from time to time. The people say they will fight with the YPG/YPJ. Is there a preparation for it, how are the people preparing?
The concept of self-defense is not only according to the People’s Protection Units of YPG and the Women's Protection Units YPJ. It is relaying on the so-called Revolutionary People’s War. This approach is about to re-educate the people in their ability to defend themselves. Its not about power but giving back responsibility to the people. It is not only about taking up weapons but to recreate the ability of the society to defend itself. Everyone can participate in this in different ways and it is our task as a revolutionary movement to educate the people so that they on the one hand believe again in their own strength but also gain practical knowledge in defending themselves and the people next to them.
The strategy of the Revolutionary People’s War is led by three forces: the professional army, the armed people within the society and the people itself. First of all you can not divide the people from the professional army of YPJ/YPG. The ones that fight in these units are the daughters, sons, fathers, mothers, sisters and brothers of the people in Rojava. It’s not a state army that is belonging to someone else but the protection units of the people and the women that are living here. Every member is from the society and connected to it. The fight is according to the needs of the people. The first task of the YPJ and YPG is to defend the liberated areas and the revolution from attacks from outside. The civil defense forces of HPC and HPC-Jin are responsible for the security inside of the society. But of course if the enemy comes from outside they are also responsible for defending this communities. They are the autonomous self-defense structures of the different communities in the cities and also rural areas of Rojava and they know the features, needs and abilities of their communities very well. They organize themselves together with the security council of their communities and also prepare the defending in case of attacks by the fascist Turkish state. They educate the people in their neighborhood and play an important role to make the defense to a collective issue.
Within the people themselves especially the women and the youth play a vanguard role in preparing themselves to defend their communities against the invading Turkish state. There are educations and discussions to build up up a high level of knowledge and also commitment to take part in the defending of Rojava. People discuss how to behave in the case of air attacks or how to deal with food-shortages. Taking part in this defense is not only about taking arms it can be the providing of food, infrastructure, places to rest or the storing of weapons. It is important to understand who can contribute in which kind of way and to coordinate these different contributions.
With the methods of low intensity warfare the Turkish state is not only attacking in direct attacks like drone strikes but also with methods of spreading fear, cutting resources like water and energy and isolating the liberated areas from the rest of the world. The aim behind that is to make the people leave, so the land can be occupied and exploited in an easy way.
If you know how you can defend yourself, you will not leave – you will stay and resist. It is one of the main tasks now to prepare the people to protect themselves against the multiple attacks of the Turkish invaders in a physical as well as psychological way.